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All (5484) Mike Winger (5484)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Some complementarians argue eldership is priestly in character, therefore reserved for men — Mike rejects this

Mike introduces and then rejects a complementarian argument that the pastoral office is priestly and therefore male-only.

Discovering Biblical Equality Stanley Grenz priestly character of eldership
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz: the NT parallel to Levitical priesthood is the church as a whole, not ordained leaders

Grenz argues that the priesthood of all believers means the parallel to OT priests is all Christians, not just clergy.

Discovering Biblical Equality universal priesthood of believers Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Mike partially agrees with Grenz but warns against pushing the OT-NT priesthood parallel too far

Mike agrees that some functions of the Levitical priesthood transferred to all believers, but not everything transfers perfectly.

typology Stanley Grenz Levitical priesthood
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Anecdote: Mike challenged a female complementarian scholar at ETS about the universal priesthood problem in her argument

A female egalitarian (corrected: complementarian) scholar argued that priesthood is masculine in character and therefore women cannot hold pastoral positions. Mike asked her about the universal priesthood of believers.

universal priesthood of believers ETS (Evangelical Theological Society)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Arguments that current leadership is priestly in character are bad, but we can learn something from an all-male OT priesthood

Mike rejects the priestly-character-of-eldership argument but says there may still be relevant principles from the all-male Levitical priesthood.

eldership Levitical priesthood
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz's positive case: whoever is a priest should be able to be an elder

After Grenz dismantles the complementarian argument, he builds his own: women are priests, therefore they can be elders.

Discovering Biblical Equality universal priesthood of believers Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz argues the Spirit's sovereign call and gifting, not gender, determines who can be an elder

Grenz's more detailed argument: since the Spirit calls believer-priests to ministry, gender cannot be an overriding disqualifying factor.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Discovering Biblical Equality Stanley Grenz 1 Corinthians 12:7
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 1: Not all priests can be elders — eldership has requirements beyond being a Christian

Mike's first rebuttal to Grenz: the Bible pragmatically refutes the argument by listing elder qualifications beyond priesthood.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 eldership qualifications Titus 1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Mike argues for obedience even if God's reasons seem offensive to culture

If one of the elder qualifications is being male, that may be offensive to our culture, but God has the right to set up His church as He sees fit.

divine authority cultural offense
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Timothy 2:5 — one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Mike cites this verse as foundational for the doctrine of no human mediators in Christianity.

1 Timothy 2:5 mediation 1 Timothy 2:5 church tradition
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Hebrews 10:19-22 — believers can enter the holy places directly through Jesus's blood

Mike uses Hebrews to demonstrate that all believers have direct access to God without a mediator.

Hebrews 10:19-22 priesthood mediation Hebrews 10:19-22
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

No special group of Christians should serve as a bridge to God's grace for other Christians

Mike argues against any form of priestly mediation within Christianity.

Hebrews 6:19 Roman Catholicism mediation Hebrews 6:19
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Correction for complementarians: the husband is NOT the priest of his home

Mike disagrees with many complementarians, including pastors he has respected, on this point.

headship universal priesthood of believers complementarian correction
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Being a priest does not mean anything about being an elder; eldership is not priestly in character

Mike draws the sharp distinction: priesthood is about access to God, not about teaching or leading others.

eldership priesthood mediation
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 4 introduced: The prophecy argument — if women prophesied, they can teach and be elders

Mike introduces the fourth and one of the more challenging arguments. Women prophesied, prophecy is a high role with authority, therefore women can teach and be elders.

prophecy argument women prophesying
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Survey of women who prophesied in the Bible: Miriam, Huldah, Deborah, Isaiah's wife, Anna, Philip's four daughters

Mike establishes that women clearly prophesied throughout the Bible, both in the OT and NT.

Isaiah's wife Luke 2 Acts 21:9 Deborah women prophesying Miriam
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 11 gives rules for how women should prophesy in public gatherings; Acts 2 / Joel 2 declares sons and daughters shall prophesy

Key NT evidence that women prophesied publicly in church gatherings.

1 Corinthians 11 Acts 2 Joel 2 1 Corinthians 11 Acts 2 women prophesying
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Three egalitarian claims from women prophesying: (1) women could speak publicly, (2) prophecy is similar to teaching, (3) prophecy carries authority rivaling eldership

Mike outlines three sub-arguments egalitarians derive from women prophesying.

Craig Keener prophecy argument prophecy and authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Claim 1 analysis: Women speaking publicly in mixed-gender gatherings is demonstrably true

Mike agrees with the first egalitarian claim derived from prophecy.

prophecy argument women speaking publicly
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Complementarian claim that women only prophesied privately is an error

Some complementarians argue women had private prophetic revelation but never prophesied publicly.

Deborah Huldah Barak
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 11:4-5 gives parallel instructions for men and women prophesying in the same context

Mike reads the key text: men are told how to prophesy, and in the same breath women are told how to prophesy.

1 Corinthians 11:4-5 head coverings women prophesying 1 Corinthians 11:4-5
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

John MacArthur's response: maybe Paul means public places but not congregational worship gatherings

Mike quotes MacArthur's article (from gty.org) about head coverings to show his interpretation.

1 Corinthians 11 John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11 John MacArthur Grace to You (gty.org)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Four reasons why 1 Corinthians 11 must be about Christian worship gatherings, not just public places

Mike gives detailed reasons for rejecting MacArthur's reading.

John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11:16 John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11:16 church gathering context
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Broader context of 1 Corinthians 11-14 confirms it is about gathered worship: Lord's Supper and spiritual gifts in church

Mike appeals to the wider literary context to confirm his reading.

1 Corinthians 11:17-34 1 Corinthians 12-14 1 Corinthians 14:3-4 1 Corinthians 11:17-34 1 Corinthians 12-14 1 Corinthians 14:3-4
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Claim 2 analysis: Prophecy is similar enough to teaching that women should be able to teach in mixed gatherings

Mike now analyzes the second egalitarian claim from women prophesying.

1 Corinthians 14:31 soft complementarianism 1 Corinthians 14:31 prophecy and teaching
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Prophecy is NOT teaching — the Bible consistently keeps them in separate categories

Mike's key pushback: while prophecy may involve elements of teaching, they are distinct categories in Scripture.

eldership prophecy and teaching biblical categories
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Claim 3 analysis: Craig Keener argues prophecy carries authority that rivals eldership

Mike examines the third and strongest form of the prophecy argument.

Craig Keener influence vs. authority prophecy and authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback on Keener: influence is not the only issue — no complementarian should limit women's influence

Mike argues that the issue is not about influence but about a specific authority role.

Deborah Priscilla Mary Magdalene
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Influence is not the same as eldership — a governor has massive influence but is not your church elder

Mike uses analogies to distinguish influence from the specific authority of eldership.

eldership influence vs. authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Eldership is radically different from prophecy: anyone could prophesy instantly, but elders must meet extensive qualifications

Mike begins a detailed list of differences between prophecy and eldership.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 eldership qualifications Titus 1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Elders govern the church; prophets do not — prophets are not appointed to an ongoing office

Mike contrasts the governing authority of elders with the non-governing nature of prophets.

church governance prophet vs. elder office Bethel Church
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Prophecy is tested; the prophet has no authority over the evaluation of their own prophecy

Mike explains the testing process for prophecy per 1 Corinthians 14:29 and 1 John 4:1.

1 Corinthians 14:29 1 John 4:1 prophecy and authority 1 Corinthians 14:29 1 John 4:1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

With elders, you test the man so the teaching will be pure; with prophecy, you test the prophecy because anyone can give one

Mike draws the fundamental distinction in how authority works for elders vs. prophets.

prophecy and authority testing the man vs. testing the word eldership authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Prophecy is passive in nature — the prophet is not supposed to speak beyond what God gave them

Mike cites Craig Keener in support of this point about the passive nature of prophecy.

2 Samuel 7 David Craig Keener Nathan
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Keener himself acknowledges prophets had 'no authority outside of their message'

Mike uses Keener's own words to push back on other egalitarians who argue prophecy equals authority.

Craig Keener prophecy and authority Nathan
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Philip Payne's two-part argument: complementarians either assume God never gives women certain gifts OR they wrongly restrict those gifts

Mike presents Philip Payne's formulation of the gifts argument.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Philip Payne spiritual gifts argument 1 Corinthians 12:7
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Romans 12:6-8 — teaching and leading are listed as spiritual gifts alongside gifts women clearly have

Mike examines the gifts list in Romans 12 to determine whether women can have teaching and leadership gifts.

Romans 12:6-8 spiritual gifts teaching gift leadership gift
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 12:28 — 'administrating' (leadership) appears as a gift distinct from the office of teacher

Mike examines another gifts list.

1 Corinthians 12:28 apostles 1 Corinthians 12:28 kubernesis (administrating)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 12:8-11 — speaking gifts (word of wisdom, word of knowledge, tongues, interpretation) seem available to women by analogy with prophecy

Mike examines another gifts list and finds it would be arbitrary to say women can prophesy but not have other speaking gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:8-11 1 Corinthians 12:8-11 word of wisdom word of knowledge
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Peter 4:10-11 — 'whoever speaks' includes all speaking gifts and all are meant to be used

Mike cites 1 Peter to show gifts are meant to be used, not kept dormant.

1 Peter 4:10-11 spiritual gifts 1 Peter 4:10-11
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Women gifted in teaching should use that gift — find ways that honor biblical limitations

Mike counsels pastors on how to handle gifted women in their churches.

women teaching practical ministry application
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Titus 2:3-5 — older women are to teach younger women; a biblical case for women's teaching ministry outside eldership

Mike provides a scriptural example of women teaching in appropriate contexts.

Titus 2:3-5 Titus 2:3-5 women's ministry women teaching
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Not everyone who teaches is an elder — an elder must be able to teach, but ability to teach does not require eldership

Mike makes the logical distinction between necessary and sufficient conditions.

Colossians 3:16 Colossians 3:16 teaching gift necessary but not sufficient
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Colossians 3:16 — mutual teaching applies to all believers including women; Priscilla corrected Apollos

Mike argues that general mutual teaching and admonishing in the church includes women teaching men.

Colossians 3:16 Priscilla Apollos Colossians 3:16
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Romans 12:6-8 revisited — women were in every gift category except teaching/leading; it is arbitrary to exclude them from those two

Mike restates the argument from Romans 12 more explicitly.

Romans 12:6-8 spiritual gifts Romans 12:6-8
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

It would contradict clear passages to say women can never lead or teach, but the question is: in what realms?

Mike affirms women have gifts of teaching and leadership based on Scripture and personal observation.

necessary but not sufficient women teaching realms of ministry
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Ministry positions should be shaped around people's gifts, not forcing people into existing roles

Mike offers a practical ministry philosophy digression.

ministry philosophy shaping roles around gifts
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Stanley Grenz argues 'the integral relation between gifts and ministry' means the church must give place for the giftedness of all persons

Mike quotes another egalitarian scholar's version of the gifts argument.

Discovering Biblical Equality spiritual gifts argument Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Why gifts do not translate to eldership: (1) one can teach and lead outside eldership; (2) the restriction is gender-based, not gift-based; (3) gifting alone cannot be sufficient for appointment

Mike gives three reasons why the gifts argument fails to establish women as elders.

spiritual gifts argument eldership qualifications gender-based restriction
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Tom Schreiner quote: complementarians should not give the impression women are unintelligent or lack teaching ability

Mike quotes a fellow complementarian to correct unhealthy attitudes toward women's teaching.

Colossians 3:16 1 Corinthians 14:26 Tom Schreiner Apollos Colossians 3:16
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