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Scripture Commentary article 2024-06-19

The Debates Over 1 Timothy 2

Response to Mike Winger's Women in Ministry Part 12 on the debates over 1 Timothy 2:11-15

1 Cor 14:34-35 1 Corinthians 10:11 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 1 Timothy 2 Spiritual Gifts Women in Leadership
Scripture Commentary article 2011-09-22

Eve Prototype

This post is the second part of an expansion on the reasons why I believe that 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is about one specific woman and why a general reference to women does not line up with the grammar within the surrounding context. The first points 1 – 4 are discussed here

1 Timothy 1:13 1 Timothy 1:16 1 Timothy 2:11 1 Timothy 2 Adam & Eve Women in Leadership
Scripture Commentary article 2010-08-10

1 Timothy 215 Going Deeper

1 Timothy 2:15 has been one of the most puzzling verses to decipher throughout church history. One of the difficult things in interpreting this verse is the translator’s rendering of some difficult grammar

1 Timothy 1:5 1 Timothy 1:5-6 1 Timothy 2:14 1 Timothy 2 Women in Leadership
Scripture Commentary article 2010-08-03

A Woman Anaphoric

In a recent blog post , there has been some discussion on 1 Timothy 2:11, 12 in the comment section, and the question of whether “a woman” is generic woman or a specific woman. I always appreciate questions and challenges on my position as it continually pushes me to continue to do research in order

1 Timothy 2:11 1 Timothy 2:11-15 1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2 Women in Leadership Complementarianism
Scripture Commentary article 2010-03-01

Women More Easily Deceived

Another reason some complementarians claim for denying women opportunities to minister in the church is that it is said that women are more easily deceived than men so men alone are permitted to minister in the church. A good example of this kind of rationale is found here with this excerpt:

1 Timothy 2:11 1 Timothy 2:14 1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2 1 Corinthians 14 Genesis & Creation
Scripture Commentary article 2009-09-30

Neopatriarch Once Again Fails To Refute Cheryl Schatz

## Challenging my position that 1 Timothy 2:15 is a single woman

1 Timothy 2:10 1 Timothy 2:11 1 Timothy 2:11-12 1 Timothy 2 Women in Leadership Complementarianism
Scripture Commentary article 2009-09-02

Mike Seaver Cheryl Schatz 10

## Responses to question #5

1 Corinthians 10:15 1 Corinthians 12:28 1 Corinthians 14:36 Women in Leadership Debates
Scripture Commentary article 2009-08-05

Mike Seaver And Cheryl Schatz Discussdebate Women In Ministry 4

## Are Witnesses and Repetition needed to Prove Women may not teach the Bible

1 Corinthians 11:27 1 Corinthians 12:21 1 Corinthians 12:7 1 Timothy 2 1 Corinthians 14 Women in Leadership
Scripture Commentary article 2009-05-30

Neopatriarch Fails To Refute Cheryl

Some have wondered why “Chris” the complementarian stopped posting here. Apparently, he could not get his refutation of my work to stand in an interactive forum so he moved it over to a place where he could have the floor to himself

1 Timothy 2:10 1 Timothy 2:11 1 Timothy 2:11-12 1 Timothy 2 Complementarianism Debates
Scripture Commentary article 2009-04-02

5 Apostle Paul They

This post is the fifth one of a simulated interview with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day

1 Timothy 2:11-15 1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2:13 1 Timothy 2 Complementarianism
Scripture Commentary article 2009-03-25

Round 4 Interview With The Apostle Paul

This post is the fourth one of a simulated interview with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day

1 Thessalonians 4:16 1 Timothy 2:11 1 Timothy 2:11-15 1 Timothy 2 Complementarianism
Scripture Commentary article 2009-03-20

Round 3 Interview With Paul On A Woman

This post is the third one of a simulated interview with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day. Doug, a strong complementarian has been given the opportunity to ask Paul about

1 Corinthians 14:23 1 Corinthians 14:24 1 Corinthians 14:25 1 Timothy 2 Complementarianism
Scripture Commentary article 2008-09-06

Public Statement Regarding Matt Slick

Public Statement regarding the Cheryl Schatz initiated Matthew 18 meeting with Matt Slick (CARM)

1 Peter 4:10 1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2 Spiritual Gifts Women in Leadership
Scripture Commentary article 2008-06-09

Noodling With The Greek Grammar

While I have made a very strong point of the Greek grammar in 1 Timothy 2:15 with the singular “she” and the plural “they” (no specific gender for “they”), some have been trying hard to wiggle out of the implications that Paul is referring to a specific woman because the only living person at that t

1 Peter 4:11 1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2 Debates
Scripture Commentary article 2008-05-17

Should Comps Debate

While there has been some genuine, respectful dialog between complementarian and egalitarian scholars, more often than not, the emotions that are brought into the dialog have brought less than respectful debate. The body of Christ is meant to fight the enemy together but when some turn their weapons

1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2:15 Exodus 1 1 Timothy 2 Complementarianism Debates
Scripture Commentary article 2008-05-14

Scriptural Fences

One of the helpful things in interpreting scripture is to identify what I call “scriptural fences”. These special verses force us to interpret the passage within the limits set up by the “fence” line

1 Corinthians 14:34 1 Corinthians 14:36 1 Corinthians 7:1 1 Corinthians 11 Trinity Debates
Scripture Commentary article 2008-05-09

Matt Slick She They

This is a continuation of my evaluation of Matt Slick’s articles on women in ministry. Matt has been working for weeks to try to refute my interpretations

1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2:15 Amos 15 1 Timothy 2 Adam & Eve Women in Leadership
Scripture Commentary article 2008-05-07

Answering Matt Slicks Agenda On 1 Timothy 2:12

This is part 2 of answering the complementarian objections of Matt Slick on 1 Timothy 2:11-15. See part one here

1 Peter 4:11 1 Timothy 2:11-15 1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2 Genesis & Creation Adam & Eve
Scripture Commentary article 2007-09-30

The Rest Of The Story 1 Timothy 211 15 And Matt Slick

> Proverbs 18:17 (ESV) The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him

1 Peter 4:10 1 Peter 4:11 1 Timothy 1:13 1 Timothy 2 Debates
Scripture Commentary article 2007-09-26

Matt Slick And Cheryl Schatz Debate 2

Matt Slick and I had an interesting discussion on whether Paul was stopping true biblical teaching in 1 Timothy 2:12 or whether Paul was stopping error. My answer concerning the imperative command to let a woman learn (1 Timothy 2:11) and the fact that all teaching by “a woman” was to be stopped unt

1 Timothy 2:11 1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2 Adam & Eve Women in Leadership
Scripture Commentary article 2006-12-07

Does God Have One Unique Law Part Two

Complementarians have stated that God has a law that forbids godly Christian women from teaching correct biblical doctrine to men. This law, they say, is revealed in 1 Timothy 2:12

1 Timothy 2:11 1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2 Complementarianism
Scripture Commentary article 2006-12-02

What Does 1 Timothy 211 15 Mean

I was challenged to present my view of 1 Timothy 2:11-15 on another blog and I thought it would be good to summarize my view on my own blog. Here is the teaching from “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free

1 Timothy 1:11-15 1 Timothy 2:11-15 1 Timothy 2:12 1 Timothy 2 Adam & Eve Women in Leadership
Scripture Commentary article 2006-03-13

Would Your Arguments Have Strength Without 1 Timothy 215

> Q: It also seems that 1 Timothy 2:15 is crucial for your interpretation. The word ‘she’ is a definite point in your favor

1 Timothy 2:15 Exodus 1 Hebrews 15 1 Timothy 2 Genesis & Creation Adam & Eve
Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-03-02

RT @ryanschatz: 6/🧵 Exposition of 1 Tim 2:11-15 (part 5, final) 1 Timothy 2:15

RT @ryanschatz: 6/🧵 Exposition of 1 Tim 2:11-15 (part 5, final) 1 Timothy 2:15 ⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ 6-1. In 1 Tim 2:15, 'the woman' is said that she '…

1 Tim 2:11-15 1 Tim 2:15 1 Timothy 2:15 general
Scripture Commentary tweet 2023-07-20

6/🧵 Exposition of 1 Tim 2:11-15 (part 5, final) 1 Timothy 2:15 ⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ 6-1. In

6/🧵 Exposition of 1 Tim 2:11-15 (part 5, final) 1 Timothy 2:15 ⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ 6-1. In 1 Tim 2:15, 'the woman' is said that she 'will be saved if'⎯it is in the future tense.  This cannot be Eve because Eve

1 Tim 2:11-15 1 Tim 2:15 1 Timothy 2:15 general
Theology verse entry

1 Timothy 2:11-15

Sections: cross_references, debate_points, exegesis, greek_analysis

1 Timothy 2:11-15 specific woman,deception,authenteo,grammar,perfect tense,future tense,anaphoric,egalitarian,ephesus,teknogonia,singular plural,historical perfect,verbal aspect,paul as pattern
Theology verse entry

Genesis 3:14-19

Sections: cross_references, debate_points, exegesis, greek_analysis

Genesis 3:14-19 fall,curse,consequences,serpent,Eve,Adam,pain,thorns,death,not prescriptive,protoevangelium,seed of the woman,Messiah,teknogonia,desire,rule,teshuqah,mashal,egalitarian,complementarian,patriarchy
Theology greek term

σωθήσεται (sothesetai)

she will be saved

greek
Theology greek term

τεκνογονία (teknogonia)

the childbearing

greek
Theology greek term

σῴζω (sozo)

to save

greek
Theology greek term

ἡ (anaphoric) (he (anaphoric))

the (anaphoric article — pointing back to a previously introduced noun)

greek
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

Introduction to 'saved through childbearing' (1 Tim 2:15): the most difficult verse

Mike introduces the five views on the enigmatic statement 'she will be saved through childbearing.'

1 Timothy 2:15 dia 1 Timothy 2:15 saved through childbearing
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

View 1: Women saved from physical death during childbirth

Mike evaluates the view that 'saved through childbearing' refers to physical preservation during labor.

1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2:15 sozo physical preservation view
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

View 2: Women saved spiritually in spite of the pain of childbirth

Mike evaluates the view that women are saved despite the curse of painful childbearing from Genesis 3.

1 Timothy 2:15 Genesis 3 curse dia 1 Timothy 2:15 Genesis 3 curse
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

View 3: Women saved spiritually by literally having children

Mike evaluates and rejects the view that bearing children contributes to women's spiritual salvation.

1 Corinthians 7 1 Timothy 2:15 Romans 3:28 1 Corinthians 7 justification by faith 1 Timothy 2:15
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

View 4: Saved through proper female roles (Douglas Moo's preferred view)

Mike presents Moo's view that childbearing represents the broader female role, and salvation attends faithful role-fulfillment.

1 Timothy 5:14 1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 5:10 1 Timothy 5:14 Douglas Moo Tom Schreiner
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

Mike's assessment of View 4: his second choice, held if View 5 fails

Mike states his personal ranking of the views before presenting his preferred interpretation.

1 Timothy 2:15 hermeneutical principle 1 Timothy 2:15 uncertain vs certain
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

View 5: Saved through the Messiah — the childbearing refers to Christ

Mike presents his preferred interpretation: 'saved through childbearing' refers to salvation through the promised Messiah born of Eve's line.

1 Timothy 2:15 Genesis 3:15 Eve 1 Timothy 2:15 Messianic interpretation
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

The definite article before 'childbearing' as soft evidence for the Messianic view

Mike notes that the Greek has 'the childbearing' (tes teknogonias), not just 'childbearing.'

1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2:15 Messianic interpretation definite article
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

The Messianic view is an early patristic interpretation, not a modern invention

Mike notes that several church fathers held this view.

1 Timothy 2:15 church fathers 1 Timothy 2:15 Messianic interpretation
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

Schreiner's objection 1: the Messianic view requires seeing 'she' as Mary

Mike addresses Tom Schreiner's first objection to the Messianic interpretation.

1 Timothy 2:15 Genesis 3:15 Tom Schreiner 1 Timothy 2:15 Genesis 3:15
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

Schreiner's objection 2: Paul never teaches salvation comes through the Incarnation

Mike addresses the objection that Paul doesn't elsewhere connect salvation to the birth of Christ.

1 Timothy 2:15 Incarnation Tom Schreiner 1 Timothy 2:15
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

Schreiner's objection 3: the definite article is not strong evidence

Mike addresses the third objection regarding the article before 'childbearing.'

1 Timothy 2:15 Tom Schreiner 1 Timothy 2:15 definite article
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

Best objection to the Messianic view: teknogonia is an odd word choice for the Messiah

Mike presents what he considers the strongest push-back against his preferred view.

1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2:15 teknogonia Messianic interpretation
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

Application of the Messianic view: women are equal in salvation, different in role

Mike explains what his preferred interpretation means for the overall passage.

Galatians 3:28 1 Peter 3:7 1 Corinthians 11:11-12 complementarianism Galatians 3:28 1 Peter 3:7
Mike Winger idea 2023-11-22

Conclusion 15: Summary on 'saved through childbearing'

Mike summarizes his confidence levels on the various views of v.15.

1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2:15 saved through childbearing Messianic interpretation
Mike Winger idea 2018-03-14

1 Timothy 2:15 — 'saved in childbearing' as further example of non-theological use of 'saved'

Second example of 'saved' used in a non-salvific sense

1 Timothy 2:15 semantic range 1 Timothy 2:15 sozo
Mike Winger idea 2019-03-13

1 Timothy 2:15 — "saved through childbearing" does not refer to eternal salvation but to restored/elevated status.

Addressing a commonly misunderstood verse.

1 Timothy 2:15 1 Timothy 2:15 sozo Women in ministry