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Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Complementarian views on women apostles

Mike summarizes the complementarian positions on the question.

complementarianism elder qualifications missionaries vs apostles
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Keener's third argument: Greek church fathers and modern scholars agree Junia was an apostle

Mike considers this the weightiest of Keener's three arguments.

Romans 16:7 John Chrysostom Craig Keener Romans 16:7 John Chrysostom
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Majority of scholars who affirm Junia as apostle think she was not highest-rank apostle

Mike makes a crucial distinction within the scholarly consensus.

Romans 16:7 Junia Romans 16:7 apostolic office
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Keener's argument: no qualifier on 'the apostles' suggests highest sense

Mike presents Keener's supporting argument from Two Views on Women in Ministry.

Romans 16:7 Two Views on Women in Ministry Craig Keener Epaphroditus
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Option 2: Junia as missionary/church planter (lower sense of apostle)

Mike explores the second option for interpreting Junia's apostleship.

Romans 16:7 Philip Payne apostolos Romans 16:7
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Craig Blomberg's soft complementarian view: missionaries with temporary authority

Mike presents Blomberg's nuanced position from Two Views on Women in Ministry.

soft complementarianism Two Views on Women in Ministry Craig Blomberg
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Women were missionaries in the early church; 'co-workers' means missionary partners

Mike affirms women's roles in early church missions.

co-workers in Paul women in missions Paul's missionary teams
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Female deacons in the early church focused on ministry to women

Mike provides historical evidence for gender-specific ministry roles.

women's ministry female deacons Apostolic Constitutions
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Bauckham reevaluated examples but brought no new counter-evidence

Mike notes a limitation in Bauckham's rebuttal.

church fathers Richard Bauckham scholarly methodology
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Burer responds to Bauckham's specific example critiques and addresses Chrysostom

Mike evaluates Burer's defense against Bauckham's objections.

John Chrysostom John Chrysostom Michael Burer Richard Bauckham
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Mike's conclusion: no female apostles in the official high-leadership sense

Mike summarizes the positive data section.

women as apostles apostolic office egalitarian arguments refuted
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Egalitarian contradiction: cultural restriction vs. Junia's early prominence

Mike identifies an internal contradiction in egalitarian reasoning.

Junia cultural accommodation Pentecost
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Pliny's letter to Trajan: early evidence of female deaconesses (c. 110 AD)

Mike provides extra-biblical historical evidence for female deacons.

Pliny the Younger Emperor Trajan Pliny's letter to Trajan
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Historical chauvinism and negative attitudes toward women have affected the church

Mike acknowledges that negative attitudes toward women exist in complementarian circles, rooted not just in biblical teaching but in broader cultural attitudes historically hostile to women.

misogyny in the church cultural influence on theology
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 1 preview: The persecution argument from N.T. Wright

Mike introduces the first argument: N.T. Wright claims that Paul persecuting women (Acts 8) proves women were leaders in the early church.

Acts 8 N.T. Wright Acts 8 persecution argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 4 preview: If women can prophesy to the whole church, they can also teach and be elders

Since women prophesied at mixed-gender gatherings and prophecy is a high role involving authority, women should also be allowed to teach and serve as elders.

eldership Craig Keener prophecy argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Acts 8:3 — Saul went house to house dragging off men and women; this was general persecution, not targeting leaders

Mike reads Acts 8:3 which is the actual text Wright bases his argument on. Paul went to every house interrogating whether people were Christians.

Acts 8:3 persecution argument Acts 8:3
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 3 introduced: Universal priesthood of believers

Mike introduces the argument: since all NT believers are priests, and priestly functions include teaching and leading, women should be able to be elders.

eldership universal priesthood of believers
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

There is no select group of priests within the body of Christ in the New Testament

Mike explains that the concept of a special clerical priesthood arose from culture and church history, not from the NT or apostolic teaching.

presbyter priesthood Roman Catholicism
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz: the NT parallel to Levitical priesthood is the church as a whole, not ordained leaders

Grenz argues that the priesthood of all believers means the parallel to OT priests is all Christians, not just clergy.

Discovering Biblical Equality universal priesthood of believers Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Mike argues for obedience even if God's reasons seem offensive to culture

If one of the elder qualifications is being male, that may be offensive to our culture, but God has the right to set up His church as He sees fit.

divine authority cultural offense
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Timothy 2:5 — one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Mike cites this verse as foundational for the doctrine of no human mediators in Christianity.

1 Timothy 2:5 mediation 1 Timothy 2:5 church tradition
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 11 gives rules for how women should prophesy in public gatherings; Acts 2 / Joel 2 declares sons and daughters shall prophesy

Key NT evidence that women prophesied publicly in church gatherings.

1 Corinthians 11 Acts 2 Joel 2 1 Corinthians 11 Acts 2 women prophesying
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Claim 1 analysis: Women speaking publicly in mixed-gender gatherings is demonstrably true

Mike agrees with the first egalitarian claim derived from prophecy.

prophecy argument women speaking publicly
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Two key passages used by strong complementarians to deny women speaking publicly: 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2

Mike identifies the passages that fuel the opposing view.

1 Timothy 2 1 Corinthians 14:34 John MacArthur 1 Timothy 2 1 Corinthians 14:34 John MacArthur
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Four reasons why 1 Corinthians 11 must be about Christian worship gatherings, not just public places

Mike gives detailed reasons for rejecting MacArthur's reading.

John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11:16 John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11:16 church gathering context
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Broader context of 1 Corinthians 11-14 confirms it is about gathered worship: Lord's Supper and spiritual gifts in church

Mike appeals to the wider literary context to confirm his reading.

1 Corinthians 11:17-34 1 Corinthians 12-14 1 Corinthians 14:3-4 1 Corinthians 11:17-34 1 Corinthians 12-14 1 Corinthians 14:3-4
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

MacArthur's conclusion quoted and rejected: 'women may have the gift of prophecy but normally are not to prophesy where men are present'

Mike quotes MacArthur's specific position and says the rule 'seems wrong.'

1 Corinthians 14:34 John MacArthur women prophesying Philip's daughters 1 Corinthians 14:34
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Key distinction: Scripture limits HOW women prophesy, not WHERE or WHEN

Mike summarizes his position on women and prophecy.

1 Corinthians 11 1 Corinthians 11 women prophesying how vs. where
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Important qualifiers: context, frequency, and whether a woman is functionally serving as an elder matter

Mike adds nuance about when teaching from a woman might cross a line.

functional eldership women teaching
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Influence is not the same as eldership — a governor has massive influence but is not your church elder

Mike uses analogies to distinguish influence from the specific authority of eldership.

eldership influence vs. authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Elders govern the church; prophets do not — prophets are not appointed to an ongoing office

Mike contrasts the governing authority of elders with the non-governing nature of prophets.

church governance prophet vs. elder office Bethel Church
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Prophecy is tested; the prophet has no authority over the evaluation of their own prophecy

Mike explains the testing process for prophecy per 1 Corinthians 14:29 and 1 John 4:1.

1 Corinthians 14:29 1 John 4:1 prophecy and authority 1 Corinthians 14:29 1 John 4:1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Scripture places limits on women prophesying: they must acknowledge male headship (1 Corinthians 11) and may not judge prophecies (1 Corinthians 14)

Mike notes that even within prophecy, there are gender-specific limitations.

1 Corinthians 14 1 Corinthians 11 headship 1 Corinthians 14 1 Corinthians 11
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Conclusion on prophecy: it pushes back against banning women from public speech but does not support removing all eldership restrictions

Mike gives his balanced conclusion on the prophecy argument.

soft complementarianism prophecy argument complementarian correction
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Philip Payne's two-part argument: complementarians either assume God never gives women certain gifts OR they wrongly restrict those gifts

Mike presents Philip Payne's formulation of the gifts argument.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Philip Payne spiritual gifts argument 1 Corinthians 12:7
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 12:28 — 'administrating' (leadership) appears as a gift distinct from the office of teacher

Mike examines another gifts list.

1 Corinthians 12:28 apostles 1 Corinthians 12:28 kubernesis (administrating)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Women gifted in teaching should use that gift — find ways that honor biblical limitations

Mike counsels pastors on how to handle gifted women in their churches.

women teaching practical ministry application
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Mike's personal example: he served as youth pastor for 13 years and never functioned as senior pastor, yet his gifts were not limited

Mike uses his own ministry experience to show that gifts can be fully expressed outside the senior elder role.

Calvary Chapel youth ministry gifts expressed outside eldership
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Colossians 3:16 — mutual teaching applies to all believers including women; Priscilla corrected Apollos

Mike argues that general mutual teaching and admonishing in the church includes women teaching men.

Colossians 3:16 Priscilla Apollos Colossians 3:16
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Egalitarian claim that women are 'kept from serving God according to their gifting' is wrong — most gifted teachers are not elders

Mike rebuts the claim that restricting eldership means restricting women's gifts.

spiritual gifts argument gifts expressed outside eldership
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 — there are 'varieties' of gifts, service, and activities; not all gifts are expressed the same way

Mike uses Paul's own language to show gifts are meant to be expressed in diverse ways.

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 varieties of ministry
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Ministry positions should be shaped around people's gifts, not forcing people into existing roles

Mike offers a practical ministry philosophy digression.

ministry philosophy shaping roles around gifts
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Stanley Grenz argues 'the integral relation between gifts and ministry' means the church must give place for the giftedness of all persons

Mike quotes another egalitarian scholar's version of the gifts argument.

Discovering Biblical Equality spiritual gifts argument Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Tom Schreiner quote: complementarians should not give the impression women are unintelligent or lack teaching ability

Mike quotes a fellow complementarian to correct unhealthy attitudes toward women's teaching.

Colossians 3:16 1 Corinthians 14:26 Tom Schreiner Apollos Colossians 3:16
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Video summary — Argument 3: Universal priesthood is true but priesthood is not the only factor in eldership

Summary of the universal priesthood argument.

universal priesthood of believers complementarian correction husband as priest
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Video summary — Argument 4: Women can prophesy in mixed gatherings but prophecy is radically different from eldership

Summary of the prophecy argument.

soft complementarianism prophecy argument complementarian correction
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

The English word 'priest' comes from Greek 'presbyter' (elder), not the actual Greek word for priest

Mike explains etymological confusion between priest and elder.

etymology presbyter hiereus
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Definition of the two sides: complementarian and egalitarian

Mike defines the two major positions in the women in ministry debate for his audience.

women in ministry complementarianism egalitarianism
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Basic egalitarian logic of Galatians 3:28

Mike summarizes the core egalitarian argument from the verse.

Galatians 3:28 Galatians 3:28 role distinctions egalitarian argument
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