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Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Neglected biblical teaching: older people should train younger people, especially same gender

Mike draws a positive application from Titus 2.

Titus 2:3-5 Titus 2:3-5 women teaching women intergenerational mentoring
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Balance: all believers should be open to learning from one another, including across genders

Mike offers a balanced complementarian application.

women in ministry mutual edification informal teaching
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

'Paranoid masculinity': over-regulation of gender roles in complementarian circles

Mike coins a term for a problem he sees in complementarian practice.

John Piper John Piper complementarian overcorrection Pharisaical over-regulation
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Egalitarian contradiction: if 1 Timothy 3:11 has women deacons, it proves women are excluded from elders in 3:1-7

Mike identifies an internal contradiction in egalitarian argumentation.

1 Timothy 3:1-7 1 Timothy 3:11 women deacons internal contradiction eldership
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Tom Schreiner's view: Junia as missionary focused on women's ministry

Mike introduces Schreiner's nuanced addition to the discussion.

Junia Tom Schreiner women's ministry
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Ancient gender-separated society created distinct need for female missionaries

Mike develops the historical-cultural argument for gender-specific ministry.

women's ministry ancient gender roles missionary partnerships
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Female deacons in the early church focused on ministry to women

Mike provides historical evidence for gender-specific ministry roles.

women's ministry female deacons Apostolic Constitutions
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Junia was female — the debate is largely settled

Mike addresses the gender of Junia.

Junia Junias gender of Junia
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

All clear references to apostles indicate male gender

Mike addresses the argument that unnamed apostles might have been women.

Junia argument from silence all-male apostolate
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Verses 12-13 are about men, verse 11 is about women — not gender neutral

Mike clarifies the structure of the 1 Timothy 3 passage on deacons.

1 Timothy 3:11 Romans 16:1 1 Timothy 3:12-13 Phoebe husband of one wife 1 Timothy 3:11
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 4 preview: If women can prophesy to the whole church, they can also teach and be elders

Since women prophesied at mixed-gender gatherings and prophecy is a high role involving authority, women should also be allowed to teach and serve as elders.

eldership Craig Keener prophecy argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz argues the Spirit's sovereign call and gifting, not gender, determines who can be an elder

Grenz's more detailed argument: since the Spirit calls believer-priests to ministry, gender cannot be an overriding disqualifying factor.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Discovering Biblical Equality Stanley Grenz 1 Corinthians 12:7
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 1: Not all priests can be elders — eldership has requirements beyond being a Christian

Mike's first rebuttal to Grenz: the Bible pragmatically refutes the argument by listing elder qualifications beyond priesthood.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 eldership qualifications Titus 1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 2: If the Holy Spirit is the source of the gender limitation, then ignoring it removes the Spirit's sovereign call

Grenz claims gender restrictions remove the Spirit's sovereign call. Mike flips this argument.

Stanley Grenz eldership qualifications sovereignty of the Spirit
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Anticipated objection: if women could not be OT priests but are NT priests, why can't they hold the highest roles?

Mike addresses the challenge to his view: if women's exclusion from OT priesthood was about gender, and now they are priests, doesn't that prove they can have any role?

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 Levitical priesthood eldership qualifications
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Claim 1 analysis: Women speaking publicly in mixed-gender gatherings is demonstrably true

Mike agrees with the first egalitarian claim derived from prophecy.

prophecy argument women speaking publicly
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 11 clearly refers to prophecy in public mixed-gender gatherings; the whole section (chs. 11-14) deals with gathered worship

Mike argues the broader context of 1 Corinthians leaves no room for limiting this to private settings.

1 Corinthians 11 head coverings 1 Corinthians 11 women prophesying
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Anna prophesied publicly at the temple to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem (Luke 2:36-38)

Mike presents Anna as another example of public, mixed-gender prophetic speech.

Luke 2:36-38 women prophesying Anna Luke 2:36-38
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Broader context of 1 Corinthians 11-14 confirms it is about gathered worship: Lord's Supper and spiritual gifts in church

Mike appeals to the wider literary context to confirm his reading.

1 Corinthians 11:17-34 1 Corinthians 12-14 1 Corinthians 14:3-4 1 Corinthians 11:17-34 1 Corinthians 12-14 1 Corinthians 14:3-4
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Keener himself acknowledges prophets had 'no authority outside of their message'

Mike uses Keener's own words to push back on other egalitarians who argue prophecy equals authority.

Craig Keener prophecy and authority Nathan
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Scripture places limits on women prophesying: they must acknowledge male headship (1 Corinthians 11) and may not judge prophecies (1 Corinthians 14)

Mike notes that even within prophecy, there are gender-specific limitations.

1 Corinthians 14 1 Corinthians 11 headship 1 Corinthians 14 1 Corinthians 11
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Conclusion on prophecy: it pushes back against banning women from public speech but does not support removing all eldership restrictions

Mike gives his balanced conclusion on the prophecy argument.

soft complementarianism prophecy argument complementarian correction
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 12:28 — 'administrating' (leadership) appears as a gift distinct from the office of teacher

Mike examines another gifts list.

1 Corinthians 12:28 apostles 1 Corinthians 12:28 kubernesis (administrating)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Gifts do not seem gender-specific; leadership and teaching could be gifts women have

Mike's conclusion on the first part of the gifts argument.

apostles spiritual gifts offices vs. gifts
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz presumes (2) gifts are the ONLY requirement for eldership — Scripture clearly gives additional requirements including gender

Mike identifies the second false premise.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 Stanley Grenz eldership qualifications
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Summary of gifts argument: women likely have teaching/leadership gifts, no scripture limits those gifts by gender, but limitations are on who can be an elder specifically

Mike summarizes his conclusions from the gifts argument.

eldership spiritual gifts argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Why gifts do not translate to eldership: (1) one can teach and lead outside eldership; (2) the restriction is gender-based, not gift-based; (3) gifting alone cannot be sufficient for appointment

Mike gives three reasons why the gifts argument fails to establish women as elders.

spiritual gifts argument eldership qualifications gender-based restriction
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Bias against women's teaching comes from women too, not just men

Mike points out that the attitude that women cannot correct men is held by some women as well.

women teaching gender bias
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Andronicus and Junia — debate about whether there were female apostles

Mike briefly mentions the debate about Junia's status as an apostle.

Romans 16:7 Romans 16:7 Andronicus and Junia female apostle debate
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Cynthia Long Westfall's use of Galatians 3:28 as an interpretive rule

Mike introduces Westfall's argument as representative of how egalitarians leverage the verse.

Galatians 3:28 creation order Galatians 3:28 interpretive framework
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Westfall on egalitarian and feminist claims about Galatians 3:28

Mike quotes Westfall's description of how egalitarians and feminists view the verse.

Galatians 3:28 Galatians 3:28 Cynthia Long Westfall Paul Jewett
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Connection between critical theory terminology and egalitarian arguments

Mike notes the language of modern feminism and critical theory appearing in egalitarian scholarship.

presuppositions critical theory feminism
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Egalitarian leverage of the Genesis allusion: new creation obliterates creation-order role differences

Mike explains how some egalitarians use the Genesis 1:27 allusion to argue for abolition of gender roles.

Genesis 1:27 creation order Genesis 1:27 Stendahl
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Ben Witherington III's (1981) two arguments against over-reading the Genesis allusion

Mike cites Witherington's earlier work to push back against the creation/new-creation dichotomy.

1 Timothy 2 1 Corinthians 14 1 Corinthians 11 1 Timothy 2 1 Corinthians 14 1 Corinthians 11
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Westfall's translation of Galatians 3:26-29 and 'sonship status' rendering

Mike evaluates Westfall's personal translation of the key passage.

Galatians 3:26-29 Cynthia Long Westfall Galatians 3:26-29 huioi (sons)
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

The egalitarian challenge: stretching sonship status to include eldership

Mike frames the core question the egalitarian position must answer.

Cynthia Long Westfall salient identity intersectionality
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Westfall's bridge: from 'belonging in the group' to 'function and role within the group'

Mike identifies the precise logical move Westfall makes.

role distinctions Cynthia Long Westfall belonging vs. function
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Westfall's primogeniture claim vs. Paul's actual point about sonship

Mike distinguishes between Paul's meaning and Westfall's application.

Genesis 2 primogeniture Cynthia Long Westfall Genesis 2
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Four problems with Westfall's 'representing Christ in any function' argument

Mike systematically lists objections to the bridge Westfall has built.

1 Corinthians 7 Ephesians 5 1 Corinthians 7 Cynthia Long Westfall Ephesians 5
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Westfall's expansion: no privileges or authority in the church based on ontology of race/gender

Mike addresses another of Westfall's broadening statements.

Cynthia Long Westfall scope of Galatians privilege and authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Galatians 3:28 does not prove complementarianism right either — it is simply about a different topic

Mike qualifies his argument to avoid overreach.

1 Timothy 2 Galatians 3:28 1 Timothy 2 Galatians 3:28 hermeneutical method
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Internal contradiction between egalitarian camps: cultural restrictions vs. status-in-Christ arguments

Mike identifies a tension within egalitarianism.

internal egalitarian disagreement cultural argument status in Christ
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Revisiting Westfall and F.F. Bruce quotes on Galatians 3:28 as an interpretive override

Mike re-presents key quotes to drive his point home.

1 Corinthians 14 Galatians 3:28 1 Timothy 2:11 1 Corinthians 14 Galatians 3:28 Cynthia Long Westfall
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Critique of Westfall's claim that complementarians make gender the 'salient identity' in the church

Mike responds to a misrepresentation of the complementarian position.

Cynthia Long Westfall salient identity misrepresentation of complementarianism
Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

The culture would not have read 'no male and female' as abolishing role distinctions

Mike draws the conclusion from the Jewish parallels.

Galatians 3:28 Galatians 3:28 cultural context original audience understanding
Mike Winger idea 2022-08-15

Weaker vessel refers to physical body, not lesser personhood

Mike defends the 'weaker vessel' language as referring to physical differences.

1 Peter 3:7 weaker vessel 1 Peter 3:7 physical differences
Mike Winger idea 2022-08-15

Aristotle actually distinguishes between reasons for female submission and slave obedience

Mike analyzes Aristotle's actual text on the slavery-marriage connection.

Aristotle Politics (Aristotle) deliberative faculty
Mike Winger idea 2022-08-15

God views slavery as bad throughout Scripture; marriage as good and God-ordained

Mike contrasts the biblical evaluation of slavery vs marriage.

Exodus narrative Exodus narrative slavery in Scripture marriage as God-ordained
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-28

Definitions of egalitarian and complementarian positions.

Setting up key terms for the discussion

complementarianism egalitarianism elder
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-28

Exodus 15 shows Moses leading the people in a song, then Miriam leading the women — her leadership is specifically of women.

Contextualizing Miriam's role in Exodus 15

Exodus 15 Moses Miriam Exodus 15