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soft complementarianism Philip Payne Linda Belleville

Mike's personal journey: he wanted to become egalitarian, prioritized egalitarian scholarship, read Philip Payne and Linda Belleville, but did not change his mind.

Mike's personal stance and research journey

Philip Payne Man and Woman, One in Christ equality in Christ

Philip Payne's related argument in 'Man and Woman, One in Christ': if we are equal in Christ, we cannot exclude anyone from leadership based on gender.

Mistake #4: Payne's variant of the philosophical argument

eldership Philip Payne equality in Christ

Mike's rebuttal to Payne: role differences are about God's calling/assignment, not nature or equality in Christ. Payne's logic would make eldership part of what it means to be Christian.

Mistake #4: Rebutting Payne

bypassing scripture Philip Payne biblical authority

Both Groothuis and Payne's philosophical arguments kill Bible study by leaving only two options: the Bible supports egalitarianism, or the Bible is wrong.

Mistake #4: Conclusion

Philip Payne Man and Woman, One in Christ Gen 2:23

Philip Payne's egalitarian argument: 'bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh' emphasizes shared essence and kinship, never subordination.

Egalitarian interpretation of Genesis 2:23

Philip Payne bone of my bones 2 Sam 5:1

Mike's rebuttal: 'bone of my bones' denotes familial connection but says nothing about authority being present or absent, shown by 2 Samuel 5:1 and Judges 9:2.

Evaluating Payne's 'bone of my bones' argument

Philip Payne Man and Woman, One in Christ Gen 2:24

Payne's second argument: the man (not the woman) leaves father and mother, which implies equality rather than male authority.

Egalitarian argument from Genesis 2:24

Philip Payne Gen 2:24 parental authority

Payne's third argument: father and mother sharing authority over the son before he leaves shows egalitarian parental authority.

Egalitarian argument about shared parental authority

Philip Payne adam Gen 5:2

Payne correctly refutes a bad complementarian argument that God naming the human race 'man' (adam) in Genesis 5:2 implies male leadership.

Payne identifies a weak complementarian argument

Philip Payne Discovering Biblical Equality Phyllis Trible

Trible's influence: her arguments are borrowed by Payne, 'Discovering Biblical Equality,' Tucker and Liefeld's 'Daughters of the Church,' and other egalitarian works.

Trible's scholarly influence despite flawed arguments

Philip Payne Man and Woman, One in Christ ezer

Philip Payne's overreach: calling 'ezer' 'rescuer' and Eve 'man's savior' goes too far in the other direction.

Egalitarian overreach on 'ezer'

Philip Payne Man and Woman, One in Christ Gen 2:18-20

Payne's final pushback on naming: the primary message of Gen 2:18-20 is that no animal is a suitable partner, not that Adam names things; and Adam is passive during Eve's creation.

Payne's attempt to minimize the naming significance

Philip Payne Tom Schreiner Gen 3:9

Schreiner's point 6: God approached Adam first after the sin (Gen 3:9) even though Eve sinned first, implying greater responsibility -- Payne counters with a chiastic structure argument.

Complementarian argument #6: God confronts Adam first

Philip Payne Man and Woman, One in Christ Gen 3

Mike's critique of Payne's chiasm: it's overly complex (A-B-C-D-E-F-E-D-C-B-A), doesn't feel natural, and even if valid, doesn't negate the authority implications.

Rebuttal to Payne's chiastic structure argument

Philip Payne Eve's sin against God Gen 3:1-6

Bad complementarian argument #1: Eve usurped Adam's authority by eating of the tree -- Mike refutes this; Eve's sin was against God, not Adam.

Bad complementarian arguments identified by Payne

Philip Payne Linda Belleville Gen 3:16

Egalitarian quotes: Belleville, Keener, and Payne all argue that Gen 3:16 is descriptive of fallen conditions, not prescriptive, and should not be enforced by church rules.

Egalitarian argument: the curse should be overturned, not propagated

Colossians 3:16 Philip Payne Colossians 3:16 teaching and admonishing

Philip Payne's argument from Colossians 3:16: all Christians should have a teaching ministry -- refuted

Mike addresses another egalitarian argument about women teachers.

Romans 16:2 Philip Payne Phoebe prostatis

Philip Payne's claim: Phoebe was Paul's personal leader based on 'prostatis' in Romans 16:2

Mike examines an extraordinary claim about Phoebe's role.

Philip Payne prostatis LSJ lexicon

LSJ vs. BDAG on prostatis: wrong lexicon used; BDAG says 'patron/benefactor,' not 'leader'

Mike identifies a significant lexical error in Payne's argument.

Romans 16:2 Philip Payne Phoebe prostatis

Survey of 12 translations on prostatis: all say patron/helper/benefactor; only Passion Translation says 'leader'

Mike checks major English translations to see if any support Payne's reading.

Romans 16:7 Philip Payne apostolos Romans 16:7

Option 2: Junia as missionary/church planter (lower sense of apostle)

Mike explores the second option for interpreting Junia's apostleship.

Philip Payne authority in ministry Great Commission

Payne's claim that Junia had 'authority as ministers of the gospel' is vague

Mike responds to Payne's claim about authority.

Philip Payne moral suspicion argument women following Jesus

Philip Payne's argument: traveling with Jesus full-time raised moral suspicions

Mike presents Payne's specific cultural argument.

John 4 Philip Payne woman at the well John 4

Mike's rebuttals to Payne: practical solutions and Jesus' counter-cultural behavior

Mike offers multiple objections to Payne's cultural argument.

Luke 7:36-50 Philip Payne anointing by sinful woman Luke 7:36-50

Jesus regularly broke cultural conventions and didn't avoid suspicion

Mike builds his case that Jesus was not concerned with cultural optics.

Philip Payne married disciples women following from Galilee

Payne's argument about married women's family obligations

Mike addresses Payne's second cultural objection.

Philip Payne woman at the well cultural restriction argument

Five objections to Payne's cultural argument summarized

Mike itemizes his objections to the cultural-restriction thesis.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Philip Payne spiritual gifts argument 1 Corinthians 12:7

Philip Payne's two-part argument: complementarians either assume God never gives women certain gifts OR they wrongly restrict those gifts

Mike presents Philip Payne's formulation of the gifts argument.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Philip Payne 1 Corinthians 12:7 common good

Second part of gifts argument: Philip Payne says gifts are 'for the common good' so you cannot restrict who a woman teaches

Mike addresses the more challenging claim from Payne.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Philip Payne 1 Corinthians 12:7 common good

Rebutting Payne's 'for the common good' argument: Paul meant gifts should benefit others, not that all gifts must be expressed Sunday morning in front of everyone

Mike directly addresses Philip Payne's use of 1 Corinthians 12:7.

Colossians 3:16 Philip Payne Colossians 3:16 teaching ministry

Rebutting Philip Payne's use of Colossians 3:16 to claim all Christians should have a teaching ministry

Mike addresses Payne's argument that Colossians 3:16 proves every woman should have a teaching ministry.

1 Corinthians 12:29-30 Philip Payne teaching ministry 1 Corinthians 12:29-30

1 Corinthians 12:29-30 — Paul's rhetorical questions show not everyone is supposed to teach

Mike cites Paul's own words against the idea that all Christians should have a teaching ministry.

Mike Winger idea 2022-06-20

Decision to focus analysis on Cynthia Westfall's chapter in Discovering Biblical Equality

Mike explains why he chose Westfall's work as the primary egalitarian argument to engage.

Philip Payne Discovering Biblical Equality Cynthia Long Westfall

Philip Payne Linda Belleville scholarly engagement

Invitation to scholars: Mike welcomes pushback from Linda Belleville, Philip Payne, and others

Mike extends an open invitation for egalitarian scholars he critiques to respond.

Philip Payne medical argument Plato

Philip Payne claims ancient Greek thought regarded the heart, not the brain, as the control center

Mike presents Philip Payne's version of the medical argument.

Philip Payne Plato Timaeus

Payne's Plato citation backfires: Plato actually says the heart is subservient to the head/reason

Mike examines the actual Plato passage Payne cites and finds it says the opposite of what Payne claims.

Philip Payne Rebecca Groothuis popular ancient belief

Payne also claims most people in Paul's day believed the heart controlled the body

Mike addresses Payne's broader claim about popular belief in the ancient world.

Philip Payne Galen Frank Freeman

Philip Payne's claim about Galen is factually false — Galen affirmed the brain controls cognition and willed action

Mike examines Payne's claim that Galen reasserted the primacy of the liver.

Mike Winger idea 2022-08-15

Introduction to Craig Keener's analysis of Ephesians 5

Mike introduces the scholar whose work will dominate the Ephesians 5 discussion.

Ephesians 5:18-6:9 Philip Payne Linda Belleville Craig Keener

Micah 6:4 Philip Payne Miriam textual stretching

Philip Payne also claims Miriam was 'sent by God to lead Israel' — Mike calls this reckless handling of the text.

Additional egalitarian scholar making the same claim

Jeremiah Zephaniah Nahum Philip Payne Craig Keener Paul, Women, and Wives

Egalitarian talking point: Huldah was chosen over contemporary male prophets Jeremiah, Zephaniah, Nahum, and Habakkuk.

Presenting the egalitarian case for Huldah's prominence

Deuteronomy 23:17 Philip Payne priesthood Deuteronomy 23:17

Egalitarian view #2 (Philip Payne): women couldn't be priests to prevent association with cult prostitution (Deuteronomy 23:17).

Second egalitarian explanation for the priesthood restriction

Deuteronomy 23:17 Philip Payne priesthood Deuteronomy 23:17

Rebuttal: Deuteronomy 23:17 prohibits BOTH male and female cult prostitutes — if this prohibition still allows men to be priests, it doesn't explain excluding women.

Refuting Payne's cult prostitution argument

Philip Payne kephale source meaning

The hairstyle view: Philip Payne's interpretation of 1 Corinthians 11

Mike presents the second of five interpretive approaches.

Payne's view: 'glory of God' and 'glory of man' have different meanings for men vs. women

Mike critiques Payne's inconsistent interpretation of 'glory.'

Philip Payne doxa glory

1 Corinthians 11:9 Philip Payne internal contradiction 1 Corinthians 11:9

Payne's view of verse 9: 'woman made for man' only means sexual partnership

Mike further critiques the sexual-partner interpretation.

1 Corinthians 11:10 Philip Payne 1 Corinthians 11:10 exousia

Payne on verse 10: the woman has authority (exousia), not under authority

Mike presents Payne's egalitarian reading of the authority verse.

1 Corinthians 11:11-12 Philip Payne egalitarianism 1 Corinthians 11:11-12

Payne on verses 11-12: Paul repudiates hierarchy of man over woman

Mike presents how Payne makes the passage actively egalitarian.

1 Corinthians 11:15 Philip Payne 1 Corinthians 11:15 peribolaion

Payne's pivotal claim: verse 15 shows hair done up IS the covering (not analogy)

Mike explains Payne's hinge interpretation of verse 15.