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Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Romans 16:7 text and the translation debate on Junia

Mike reads the ESV translation of Romans 16:7 and introduces the translation controversy.

Romans 16:7 Junia Romans 16:7 Andronicus
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Keener's argument: no qualifier on 'the apostles' suggests highest sense

Mike presents Keener's supporting argument from Two Views on Women in Ministry.

Romans 16:7 Two Views on Women in Ministry Craig Keener Epaphroditus
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Payne's claim that Junia had 'authority as ministers of the gospel' is vague

Mike responds to Payne's claim about authority.

Philip Payne authority in ministry Great Commission
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

The egalitarian 'trump card' of Junia as apostle does not work

Mike's interim conclusion before moving to the Greek syntactical argument.

1 Timothy 2 Junia 1 Timothy 2 egalitarian trump card
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Burer-Wallace: 'snowballing dogma with little substance at its core'

Mike quotes from the paper's critique of the consensus.

Burer-Wallace paper (2001) lexical evidence syntactical evidence
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Burer-Wallace conclusion: 'almost certainly' means well known to the apostles

Mike quotes the paper's strong conclusion.

Romans 16:7 NET Bible Romans 16:7 ESV
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Richard Bauckham's rebuttal in Gospel Women

Mike introduces the main scholarly pushback against Burer-Wallace.

Craig Blomberg Burer-Wallace paper (2001) Richard Bauckham
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Burer responds to Bauckham's specific example critiques and addresses Chrysostom

Mike evaluates Burer's defense against Bauckham's objections.

John Chrysostom John Chrysostom Michael Burer Richard Bauckham
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Mike's conclusion: Junia was probably not an apostle; if she was, she was a missionary

Mike states his overall conclusion on the Junia question.

Romans 16:7 Junia women's ministry Romans 16:7
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Mike identifies equivocation in Wright's argument about apostle

Mike charges Wright with a logical fallacy.

Mary Magdalene N.T. Wright equivocation fallacy
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Mike critiques N.T. Wright's impact: meme-level arguments persuading many

Mike expresses frustration with the quality of Wright's argument on this topic.

N.T. Wright women in ministry debate popular argumentation
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Craig Keener's argument: Deborah as an Old Testament apostle equivalent

Mike addresses Keener's claim linking Deborah to apostleship.

Judges Deborah Judges Craig Keener
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Jesus is the new Moses, not the apostles

Mike rebuts the Moses-apostle equivalence.

Deuteronomy 18 Moses Jesus as new Moses Deuteronomy 18
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Better equivalence: women prophets in OT lead to women prophets in NT, not women apostles

Mike argues the egalitarian logic fails on its own terms.

hermeneutical methodology OT-NT equivalence women prophets
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Egalitarian response: cultural reasons prevented women apostles

Mike presents and critiques the standard egalitarian counter-argument.

Craig Keener women in ministry debate cultural acquiescence argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Mike's experience researching egalitarian scholarship: layers of confusion

Mike shares his personal intellectual journey through the literature.

complementarianism egalitarian scholarship critique research methodology
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Mike's conclusions on women's roles: high view of women but not apostles

Mike begins his summary conclusions for the video.

soft complementarianism female deacons women's roles in NT
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Pushback from previous video on female deacons and 1 Timothy 3:8-13

Mike responds to viewer objections about women as deacons.

1 Timothy 3:8-13 1 Timothy 3:8-13 deacon qualifications female deacons
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Verses 12-13 are about men, verse 11 is about women — not gender neutral

Mike clarifies the structure of the 1 Timothy 3 passage on deacons.

1 Timothy 3:11 Romans 16:1 1 Timothy 3:12-13 Phoebe husband of one wife 1 Timothy 3:11
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Introduction: Mike feared he had not heard the best egalitarian arguments

Mike explains why he avoided answering women-in-ministry questions for years — he worried he had not been exposed to strong egalitarian arguments due to his complementarian upbringing.

complementarianism egalitarianism
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 1 detail: N.T. Wright's persecution argument from 'Surprised by Scripture'

Wright quotes Kenneth Bailey's cultural analysis to argue that women being targeted by Saul's persecution proves they were leaders and influential figures in the community.

Acts 8 N.T. Wright Surprised by Scripture Acts 8
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Wright's claim that women were persecuted 'equally' with men is an overstatement

Mike analyzes Wright's specific wording. While both men and women were imprisoned, we have no data on whether persecution was truly equal in degree or severity.

N.T. Wright persecution argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Acts 22:3 — Paul 'at the feet of Gamaliel' does not prove everyone who sat at a teacher's feet became a rabbi

Mike questions whether the phrase necessarily means rabbinical training for every person who used it.

Acts 22:3 Acts 22:3 sat at the feet Gamaliel
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Argument 3 introduced: Universal priesthood of believers

Mike introduces the argument: since all NT believers are priests, and priestly functions include teaching and leading, women should be able to be elders.

eldership universal priesthood of believers
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Some complementarians argue eldership is priestly in character, therefore reserved for men — Mike rejects this

Mike introduces and then rejects a complementarian argument that the pastoral office is priestly and therefore male-only.

Discovering Biblical Equality Stanley Grenz priestly character of eldership
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz: the NT parallel to Levitical priesthood is the church as a whole, not ordained leaders

Grenz argues that the priesthood of all believers means the parallel to OT priests is all Christians, not just clergy.

Discovering Biblical Equality universal priesthood of believers Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz's positive case: whoever is a priest should be able to be an elder

After Grenz dismantles the complementarian argument, he builds his own: women are priests, therefore they can be elders.

Discovering Biblical Equality universal priesthood of believers Stanley Grenz
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Priesthood is necessary but not sufficient for eldership

Mike proposes replacing 'irrelevant' with 'insufficient for' in Grenz's claim.

eldership qualifications necessary but not sufficient
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Grenz argues the Spirit's sovereign call and gifting, not gender, determines who can be an elder

Grenz's more detailed argument: since the Spirit calls believer-priests to ministry, gender cannot be an overriding disqualifying factor.

1 Corinthians 12:7 Discovering Biblical Equality Stanley Grenz 1 Corinthians 12:7
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 1: Not all priests can be elders — eldership has requirements beyond being a Christian

Mike's first rebuttal to Grenz: the Bible pragmatically refutes the argument by listing elder qualifications beyond priesthood.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 eldership qualifications Titus 1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 2: If the Holy Spirit is the source of the gender limitation, then ignoring it removes the Spirit's sovereign call

Grenz claims gender restrictions remove the Spirit's sovereign call. Mike flips this argument.

Stanley Grenz eldership qualifications sovereignty of the Spirit
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Pushback 3: Grenz's argument assumes priesthood + gifts are the ONLY factors for eldership — they are not

Grenz's case rests on two factors: being a priest and having gifts. Mike argues these are not the only factors.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 Stanley Grenz eldership qualifications
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Mike argues for obedience even if God's reasons seem offensive to culture

If one of the elder qualifications is being male, that may be offensive to our culture, but God has the right to set up His church as He sees fit.

divine authority cultural offense
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Priesthood means no one mediates between you and God; this is different from teaching

Mike now builds his positive case for what priesthood means for Christians and why it does not equate to eldership.

1 Timothy 2:5 priesthood mediation 1 Timothy 2:5
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Being a priest does not mean anything about being an elder; eldership is not priestly in character

Mike draws the sharp distinction: priesthood is about access to God, not about teaching or leading others.

eldership priesthood mediation
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Anticipated objection: if women could not be OT priests but are NT priests, why can't they hold the highest roles?

Mike addresses the challenge to his view: if women's exclusion from OT priesthood was about gender, and now they are priests, doesn't that prove they can have any role?

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 Levitical priesthood eldership qualifications
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

What was uniquely priestly was the mediating function, which now belongs to all believers

Mike clarifies the distinction between priestly mediation and teaching.

1 Timothy 2 1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 2 1 Timothy 3 eldership qualifications
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

1 Corinthians 11 gives rules for how women should prophesy in public gatherings; Acts 2 / Joel 2 declares sons and daughters shall prophesy

Key NT evidence that women prophesied publicly in church gatherings.

1 Corinthians 11 Acts 2 Joel 2 1 Corinthians 11 Acts 2 women prophesying
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

John MacArthur's response: maybe Paul means public places but not congregational worship gatherings

Mike quotes MacArthur's article (from gty.org) about head coverings to show his interpretation.

1 Corinthians 11 John MacArthur 1 Corinthians 11 John MacArthur Grace to You (gty.org)
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

MacArthur's conclusion quoted and rejected: 'women may have the gift of prophecy but normally are not to prophesy where men are present'

Mike quotes MacArthur's specific position and says the rule 'seems wrong.'

1 Corinthians 14:34 John MacArthur women prophesying Philip's daughters 1 Corinthians 14:34
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Important qualifiers: context, frequency, and whether a woman is functionally serving as an elder matter

Mike adds nuance about when teaching from a woman might cross a line.

functional eldership women teaching
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

The egalitarian move 'prophecy involves teaching, therefore all teaching is acceptable, therefore prophecy equals eldership' blurs God-given distinctions

Mike warns against the slippery-slope reasoning some egalitarians use.

1 Timothy 3 soft complementarianism 1 Timothy 3 prophecy argument
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Claim 3 analysis: Craig Keener argues prophecy carries authority that rivals eldership

Mike examines the third and strongest form of the prophecy argument.

Craig Keener influence vs. authority prophecy and authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Influence is not the same as eldership — a governor has massive influence but is not your church elder

Mike uses analogies to distinguish influence from the specific authority of eldership.

eldership influence vs. authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Eldership is radically different from prophecy: anyone could prophesy instantly, but elders must meet extensive qualifications

Mike begins a detailed list of differences between prophecy and eldership.

1 Timothy 3 Titus 1 1 Timothy 3 eldership qualifications Titus 1
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Elders govern the church; prophets do not — prophets are not appointed to an ongoing office

Mike contrasts the governing authority of elders with the non-governing nature of prophets.

church governance prophet vs. elder office Bethel Church
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Keener himself acknowledges prophets had 'no authority outside of their message'

Mike uses Keener's own words to push back on other egalitarians who argue prophecy equals authority.

Craig Keener prophecy and authority Nathan
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Prophecy and eldership are very different: prophecy is passive, requires no qualifications or appointment, and the prophet has no ongoing authority

Mike summarizes the key differences that undermine the prophecy-equals-eldership argument.

prophecy vs. eldership
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Scripture places limits on women prophesying: they must acknowledge male headship (1 Corinthians 11) and may not judge prophecies (1 Corinthians 14)

Mike notes that even within prophecy, there are gender-specific limitations.

1 Corinthians 14 1 Corinthians 11 headship 1 Corinthians 14 1 Corinthians 11
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-30

Ephesians 4:11-12 is about offices (apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds/teachers) not about gifts applicable to the question

Mike examines Ephesians 4 but determines it is about offices, not gifts.

Ephesians 4:11-12 offices vs. gifts Ephesians 4:11-12 pastor-teacher
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