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Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Possible non-inferiority reasons for role differences: picturing Christ and the Church, societal order, or unstated divine purposes. Groothuis rejects all of these.

Mistake #4: Alternative explanations Groothuis ignores

Rebecca Merrill Groothuis Christ and the Church Eph 5
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Beth Allison Barr's 'The Making of Biblical Womanhood' as a prime example of story-driven theology — the book frames the entire discussion through personal pain and church hurt.

Mistake #5: Critique of Beth Allison Barr's book

church hurt story-driven theology Beth Allison Barr
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Extending the analogy: church authority has been abused, boss-employee relationships have been abusive — should we abolish all authority structures?

Mistake #5: Rebuttal via analogy continued

authority structures Ed Citronelli church abuse
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Mistake #6: Thinking submission is inherently evil — submission was not a bad word in biblical culture, though it is in modern culture.

Mistake #6: Submission is inherently evil

submission cultural assumptions 1 Pet 5:5
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Linda Belleville is so opposed to submission that she argues nobody had authority in the early church — not even Jesus or the apostles.

Mistake #6: Belleville's extreme position on authority

Linda Belleville submission authority in the early church
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-07

Three commitments: (1) Mike will not submit scripture to culture — neither progressive nor conservative cultural pressure.

Three things Mike will NOT do in this series

hermeneutics scripture and culture Southern California
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Definition of complementarian and egalitarian positions in the debate over women in ministry.

Framing the two sides of the debate

women in ministry complementarianism egalitarianism
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Trible's influence: her arguments are borrowed by Payne, 'Discovering Biblical Equality,' Tucker and Liefeld's 'Daughters of the Church,' and other egalitarian works.

Trible's scholarly influence despite flawed arguments

Philip Payne Discovering Biblical Equality Phyllis Trible
Mike Winger idea 2022-03-14

Egalitarian quotes: Belleville, Keener, and Payne all argue that Gen 3:16 is descriptive of fallen conditions, not prescriptive, and should not be enforced by church rules.

Egalitarian argument: the curse should be overturned, not propagated

Philip Payne Linda Belleville Gen 3:16
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

NT Wright on Romans 16: women as church leaders and Phoebe as letter bearer

Continuation of Wright's argument about Romans 16.

Romans 16 Romans 16:1-2 Junia N.T. Wright Romans 16
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Linda Belleville's claim: no lack of women leaders in the early church

Mike introduces egalitarian scholar Linda Belleville's claims about women leaders.

Romans 16:1-2 Linda Belleville Discovering Biblical Equality Two Views on Women in Ministry
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Belleville claims female apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists; Craig Keener agrees women held prominent roles

Mike continues presenting egalitarian scholarly claims.

Linda Belleville women apostles Craig Keener
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Nympha in Colossians 4:15 -- Lynn Cohick's claim she led a house church

Mike begins examining individual women named in the NT, starting with Nympha.

Colossians 4:15 Discovering Biblical Equality Nympha Lynn Cohick
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Belleville assigns Nympha the title 'overseer' based on hosting; Mike challenges the logic

Mike examines how Belleville gets from 'church in her house' to 'overseer.'

Colossians 4:15 Linda Belleville Nympha Colossians 4:15
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Margaret MacDonald's claim: Nympha was a key leader across the Lycus Valley churches

Mike traces Belleville's footnote source.

Nympha Margaret MacDonald Lycus Valley
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Central egalitarian claim: hosting a house church made you the leader/overseer of that church

Mike identifies this as a pervasive claim that recurs throughout egalitarian literature.

Linda Belleville hosting vs. leading overseer
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Belleville's defense: patronage of a house church was an authoritative role in Greco-Roman times

Mike reads Belleville's argument from Two Views on Women in Ministry (p. 37).

James Linda Belleville Two Views on Women in Ministry hosting vs. leading
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Acts 16:15 refutes host-as-leader: Lydia hosted Paul immediately after conversion

Mike applies the host-as-leader test to Lydia.

Acts 16:15 Lydia N.T. Wright hosting vs. leading
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Acts 12:12 refutes host-as-leader: Mary mother of Mark hosted a prayer gathering

Mike presents another counter-example.

Acts 12:12 Linda Belleville hosting vs. leading Mary mother of Mark
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Additional arguments against host-as-leader: Timothy/Titus appointing elders, reductio ad absurdum examples

Mike piles on counter-evidence to the host-as-leader claim.

Titus 1 John hosting vs. leading Timothy Titus
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Wayne Meeks (The First Urban Christians) -- Belleville's own source refutes her position

Mike traces Belleville's scholarly source for the host-as-leader claim.

Linda Belleville hosting vs. leading scholarly methodology
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Jason in Acts 17:5-9 does not prove host-as-leader; shows external cultural accountability only

Mike addresses the one passage egalitarians use to support host-as-leader.

Acts 17:5-9 hosting vs. leading Jason Acts 17:5-9
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Belleville's argument from Paul's public appeal: if they weren't leaders, no need for third-party intervention

Mike evaluates Belleville's second argument for Euodia/Syntyche's leadership.

Philippians 4:2-3 Linda Belleville Euodia Syntyche
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Belleville's third argument: their disagreement jeopardized church unity, proving leadership role

Mike addresses Belleville's final argument for Euodia/Syntyche as leaders.

Linda Belleville Euodia Syntyche
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Priscilla's teaching was doctrinal but private and informal, not public elder-type teaching

Mike distinguishes what Priscilla's teaching was from what it was not.

Acts 18:26 Priscilla private vs. public teaching eldership teaching
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Principle from Priscilla: a woman can instruct a man in doctrine, at least in private/informal contexts

Mike draws a principle from the Priscilla account.

Priscilla women teaching men private instruction
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Women should talk about theology; stunting them from it stunts understanding and causes harm

Mike draws a conclusion from Priscilla's example for complementarian churches.

Priscilla women and theology complementarian overcorrection
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Egalitarian argument: 'fellow worker' (synergos) and 'labor' (kopiao) mean leadership

Mike identifies a major branch of egalitarian argumentation about Pauline terminology.

Linda Belleville Craig Keener synergos
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Women were church planters and evangelists; laboring 'in the gospel' points to evangelism

Mike draws positive conclusions about women's ministry scope from the terminology.

Priscilla Aquila women evangelists
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Church history: women had distinct ministry roles (baptism assistance, anointing); called deacons

Mike provides historical context for women's active ministry.

deaconess history women's baptism ministry anointing ministry
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Craig Keener claims Priscilla and Aquila instructed ministers (plural) and led a house church

Mike examines Keener's specific claims about Priscilla and Aquila.

Acts 18:26 Priscilla Aquila Craig Keener
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

1 Corinthians 16:19 does not prove Priscilla and Aquila led a house church

Mike examines Keener's second reference for house church leadership.

1 Corinthians 16:19 Priscilla Aquila Craig Keener
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Philemon 1-2: church in Philemon's house does not make Apphia or Archippus leaders

Mike examines Keener's third reference.

Philemon 1-2 Philemon Craig Keener hosting vs. leading Philemon 1-2
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Conclusions on Priscilla/Aquila: Keener overstates, but women can teach men theology

Mike balances his critique with a positive complementarian conclusion.

Priscilla Craig Keener women teaching men
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Elder, overseer, bishop, and presbyter are all the same biblical role

Mike clarifies terminology before discussing eldership requirements.

overseer episkopos elder
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

The term 'pastor' is used in confusing ways; may describe deacon-level work

Mike distinguishes between the biblical office and modern church usage.

pastor vs. elder vs. deacon church terminology
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Belleville's case for women elders from 1 Timothy 5:9-10 (enrolled widows)

Mike examines Belleville's argument that enrolled widows were functioning as elders.

1 Timothy 5:9-10 Linda Belleville elder presbuteros
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Belleville's third argument: enrolled widows were paid for ministry like elders -- refuted

Mike addresses the compensation argument.

1 Timothy 5:9-10 Linda Belleville 1 Timothy 5:9-10 enrolled widows
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Neglected biblical teaching: older people should train younger people, especially same gender

Mike draws a positive application from Titus 2.

Titus 2:3-5 Titus 2:3-5 women teaching women intergenerational mentoring
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

The unique elder requirement: able to teach -- distinguishes elders from deacons

Mike highlights what makes elder requirements distinct.

1 Timothy 3:2 able to teach didaktikos elder vs. deacon distinction
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Elders as official teachers carrying apostolic doctrine

Mike describes the teaching function of elders.

1 Timothy 3 1 Timothy 3 apostolic doctrine elder teaching role
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Women gifted for ministry hold back in complementarian churches due to fear

Mike describes a pastoral observation.

women in ministry complementarian overcorrection spiritual gifts
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Transition to deacons: eldership is male; deacons are the question

Mike frames the deacon discussion.

eldership women deacons deacons
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Definition of deacon: can mean generic servant or official church position

Mike defines the semantic range of 'diakonos.'

1 Timothy 3 1 Timothy 3 elder vs. deacon distinction diakonos
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Deacons do whatever is needed as official church representatives; the 'pastor' label confusion

Mike completes his deacon definition.

pastor vs. elder vs. deacon church terminology deacon authority
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Is Phoebe a deacon? Analysis of Romans 16:1 and the word diakonos

Mike examines whether Phoebe held the official office of deacon.

Philippians 1:1 Romans 16:1 Romans 13:4 Phoebe Cenchreae Philippians 1:1
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Phoebe likely was an official deacon because of the phrase 'of the church at Cenchreae'

Mike concludes Phoebe was a deacon based on the qualifying phrase.

Romans 16:1 Tom Schreiner Craig Blomberg Phoebe
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

The word 'deaconess' didn't exist yet; Paul used 'gunaikas' because no feminine term was available

Mike explains why Paul didn't use a feminine deacon term.

1 Timothy 3:11 church history 1 Timothy 3:11 diakonos
Mike Winger idea 2022-04-13

Craig Blomberg on early church deaconesses: common for centuries with pastoral care and baptism roles

Mike cites historical support for women deacons.

Two Views on Women in Ministry Craig Blomberg deaconess history
Mike Winger idea 2022-05-09

Series overview: Were women apostles in the New Testament?

Mike introduces part 5 of the Women in Ministry series, focused on the claim that women were apostles.

complementarianism egalitarianism women as apostles
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